Affiliate Union and the Rights of Affiliates

<ClubMom_Shawn>	Brian Clark - Producer/President of Revenews.com and AffiliateUnion.com Board of Directors, will be moderating ""Affiliate Union and the Rights of Affiliates?"" - feel free to ask questions. Welcome, Brian!
<Brian_Clark>	Hi, folks ... nice to be here, and thanks so much to the folks at Cashpile and the United States Affiliate Manager Coalition for putting this Webinar on.
<ac20_jck>	affilaitepromoter.com has a cool new bulliten board that is unmoderated... ooh.. hi Brian!
<Brian_Clark>	I've got a few ""prepared comments"" (how boring for a chat, eh?) that I wanted to share with you all before we let this discussion rip, and I'll make sure to include at least a few controversial ideas to make sure the discussion is a lively one.
<Brian_Clark>	Let me start out by explaining my perspective. As a content publisher, my interest in affiliate marketing is firmly planted on the affiliate side of the equation. While I've consulted with a few e-commerce companies here and there on how to use affiliate marketing, most of our emphasis is on how we as content publishers and entertainment producers can use affiliate programs as part of the arsenal of income producing tools.
<Brian_Clark>	Over the past couple of years, we've become more and more concerned about just how crappy many ... dare I say most? ... affiliate programs really are. Don't get me wrong: I love the technique, and really do believe that ""performance marketing"" will supplant traditional advertising as the dominant marketing style on the Web. But right now, MOST affiliate programs on the Web have ethical deficiencies in treating their affiliates fairly.
<Brian_Clark>	Of course, not ClubMom :)
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	MOST?
<Brian_Clark>	Notice, I didn't say ""most affiliate programs are unethical"" or even ""most affiliate programs are scams,"" but the quantity (and variety) of ways that affiliates get abused by their merchant partners is on the increase, not the decrease. Couple this with the notoriously poor affiliate relations efforts these merchants have, and we've got real problems brewing in the affiliate marketing space.
<ac20_jck>	dig that!
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	I agree.
<RyanP_GiftCertcom>	agree
<Brian_Clark>	Again, this isn't ALL merchants ... but a huge number (in terms of total number of merchants.)
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	How do we as merchants fix this scenario
<JollyGoodDeals_Myke>	an I didn't even know I was getting ripped!
<Brian_Clark>	After writing a number of critical essays for ReveNews.com looking at affiliate contracts and the theoretical aspects of what seems to work and what doesn't, the idea started to crystalize in my head that what affiliates really needed to do was organize. Dare I use the ""union"" term that strikes fear into so many merchants' hearts? Well, not ""union"" in the sense of collective barganing ... but ""union"" in terms of making a joint statement from the community of
<EMT_Andrea>	Brian - you are singing my song
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Aside from the obvious
<ac20_jck>	but it seems like the players with the most capital make waves, regardless of whether or not they are honorable
<MainshipSystems_DS>	I've had problems, specifically with two bfree merchants, who recorded clicks but not slaes, and didn't credit me with the commissions. What recourse do we have when that happens?
<Brian_Clark>	(almost done with the prepared comments folks)
<Brian_Clark>	Those discussions in ReveNews.com ended up being the birthplace of the AffiliateUnion.com effort -- a collaboration of affiliates, merchants, affiliate technology providers and others struggling with the conceptual issues of ""what's fair to both affiliates and merchants?"" The months and months of detailed discussions (archived on the AffiliateUnion.com site) from some of the brightest and most eager minds has produced a wonderful approach to this problem: ce
<allplaza_David_Fish>	If anyone has anyone has any questions for AllPlaza.com, please click on our banner.
<Brian_Clark>	(standards ... oops cut it off)
<Brian_Clark>	The group decided that there was no way to template the whole world of affiliate marketing, but merchants and affiliates all agreed that merchants should, in the spirit of openness and fairness, do a far better job of disclosing how they'll operate their programs than the current ""contracts of adhesion"" that dominate the industry.
<Brian_Clark>	URL time here ... for those of you interested in looking at the draft of what the Affiliate Union found important enough to approach a consensus on. The long version (that includes much of the rationale behind the individual items) is available at:
<Brian_Clark>	http://www.affiliateunion.com/drafts09112000.html
<degenholtz>	where is the best place for a merchant to lists it affiliate program in order to acquire new affiliates?
<Brian_Clark>	Even better for a discussion of this sort might be the ""program review checklist"" -- a short cut tool developed to help with our effort to ""certify"" affiliate programs that meet these standards -- at:
<Brian_Clark>	http://www.affiliateunion.com/cert/
<ac20_jck>	affiliatepromoter.com is good
<Adgrafix_Maureen>	After hearing you say that.. i now understand why our Account Executives love us .
<Brian_Clark>	Each one of these criteria come as an answer to the very real horror stories from affiliates and how they've been treated in the past by some of their merchant partners -- there was no better approach to figuring out how make affiliate marketing more fair than by looking at those cases where it was clearly unfair.
<Brian_Clark>	Does this mean that most affiliate programs are out to screw their affiliates? No, not at all ... the purpose of these criteria are to separate the bad affiliate programs from mediocre ones, not to raise the bar to the highest level. Does this mean that most of the affiliate programs you know and participate in now would be certified if they applied today? Not on your life ... most of even the best programs would have to make some additional disclosures to s
<degenholtz>	thanks
<RyanP_GiftCertcom>	wow, he types fast
<Brian_Clark>	*grin* Ryan
<Brian_Clark>	However, the certification criteria is already having an effect (even as the AU ramps up it's organization and certification effort): many affiliate program managers are turning to the document as a guidepost in developing their own disclosures (many have emailed saying, ""I wish this list had been around when we first started"") and savvy affiliates can use this checklist as a guide to reviewing a program that they are considering parterning with.
<Harith>	and think fast too
<Affiliates4Cash_Nanc>	Wasn't there a bulletin board some months back that included discussions about an affiliate union that suddenly disappeared
<Brian_Clark>	Wheew ... ok, those prepared notes were really longer than I planned, as I wanted to focus most of the time of this chat on talking about the horror stories that affiliates are telling us, the concept of ethical standards in affiliate contracts and any specifics about individual criteria that might interest you folks.
<Brian_Clark>	Nanc: it's still around at AffiliateUnion.com.
<Brian_Clark>	I also see a number of people here in the room that were part of the AU discussions, so this should be a good discussion
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	I have an ethical question for you Brian.
<RyanP_GiftCertcom>	Brian - Would you agree that the first step would be to get the providers to change or incorporate your ideas into their standard agreements that they provide to new merchants?
<APmanager_Jeff>	Good idea brian
<Brian_Clark>	Including Harith Al-Jibury, who's really the engine inside that car right now (hi Harith)
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	I have an affiliate that made a mistake in how he presented his link, so it recorded click but not members
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Do affiliates really read the aggrements?
<IMC_Ibrahim>	When we made our affiliate program, we really were concerned over the affiliate program. We took looks at the agreements from many affiliate programs, and made sure that everything was spelled out and thought out.
<Harith>	hi,Brian
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	I am will to give him something based on these clicks (thought our model is CPA)
<Brian_Clark>	Ryan -- absolutely. We think these criteria are more about disclosure than anything ...
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	but he won't return my calls or emails???
<EMT_Andrea>	Yes Renetia, I read them all
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Renetia: they have to.
<Brian_Clark>	Ibrahim -- I think IMC does a far better job than most.
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	You would think that, but it doesn't always seem the case
<Ken_Werner>	absolutely, Renetia
<KoolStores_Steve>	I read ever them all too
<Brian_Clark>	Agree.
<SurroMoms_Kara>	well they/we are supposed to anywya
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	the problem with the agreements that the merchants give is that they are legal bs to cover their butts and give them an out with affiliates
<MainshipSystems_DS>	The merchants verified that the lick was correct, and I even gave one order numbers. That one subsequently cancelled me due to ""lack of activity""!
<Brian_Clark>	Actually, that's the first thing I would preach ... read the contracts before you sign up.
<APmanager_Jeff>	As the future devlops...
<APmanager_Jeff>	many merchants need to see affiliate programs
<Brian_Clark>	And merchants, read your contract before you publish it (you'd be amazed how many don't)
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Brian: It was tough to do though. Mainly because I wanted to have it cover everything, as well as keeping it as understandble and free of legal talk as possible.
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	I think the most sense
<APmanager_Jeff>	...as primary means of marketing
<SheilaRuth>	I read every agreement before I join, although I tend to skim the boilerplate
<APmanager_Jeff>	Not secondary
<EMT_Andrea>	Brian - I have a question concerning an affiliate network - do they ave to disclose to an affiliate their standards on how they track commissions and sales on their back end?
<Focalex_DarrenDeLuca>	Questions on how to earn 55 cents per subscriber to free email lists? Visit Focalex Chat and we'll show you how easy it is.
<Brian_Clark>	Andrea -- I think they should. I think it's just good affiliate relations.
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	brian, i want to reward an affiliate for CPA, but he won't return my calls/emails. what should i do?
<APmanager_Jeff>	This will encourage them to better define their Affiate agreements
<Brian_Clark>	Otherwise, there are just fights later on from misinterpretation.
<APmanager_Jeff>	And better discolsures
<Brian_Clark>	Wow, Diane ... that's an usual one. Did you not have an address on file to send checks to?
<ac20_jck>	a lot of affilaites don't seem to be interested in communication...
<EMT_Andrea>	We are experiencing one network who claims that all merchants track differently and they do not have a handle on the tracking methods
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	I agree with ac20
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	his link registered clicks, but not members because of the way he had the link/page framed
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	ac20 - I see it as more merchants not wanting to communicate
<ac20_jck>	thanks!
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	They want you to be there, but I do have some that don't want to be bothered
<Arlana>	Have you tried SnailMail, Diane?
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	so our program did not register actual members, but I'm willing to work with him, due to the great traffic he sent our way
<APmanager_Jeff>	ac20....we as merchants have to give the affiliate resources for communications
<Brian_Clark>	Andrea -- unfortunately, sometimes that's the case, which shifts the burden back to the merchant to disclose.
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	i can't get in touch with him!
<APmanager_Jeff>	other than just emails
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Brian: our last chat contained a suggestion to having discussion forums on the site. I'm beginning to think this would greatly improve communication, as well as putting affiliates at ease that they can get answers from both the merchant and other affiliates.
<ac20_jck>	well, I see that too. But I admin several programs and I can't get replies from %90+ of my menbers!
<APmanager_Jeff>	Bulliten boards, forums...etc
<Brian_Clark>	Diane: you've got the right attitude, but there's no leading that horse to water, eh?
<ClubMom_Shawn>	Diane - if he has a domain, try looking for his info through WHOIS
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I agree Jeff...what other ways do you communicate?
<emt_shareda>	Yes, affiliates read the agreement and I find it very difficult to accept the fact that the merchants can change their fee structure whenever, they want to without any notice, etc.
<EMT_Andrea>	Brian - the merchant calims to know nothing about the sales we claim we have pushed their way - several thousands of dollars worth
<KoolStores_Steve>	If I copy and paste the home page (HTML) inside any affiliate merchant store, using the html, does it, or will it track correctly?
<Focalex_Ryan>	We have a very nice messageboard on our site, hype it up, yet no one seems to want to talk
<IMC_Ibrahim>	(Of course, from a merchant point of view, it's great to be able to read everything your affiliates will have concerns about)
<Brian_Clark>	Ibrahim -- it certainly doesn't hurt, especially if you can create an environment where affiliates help educate each other.
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	i've talked to him one time, so i know his phone number is correct
<Harith>	hi, Rita
<Brian_Clark>	Andrea: what provider?
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	he just won't return my calls, i'm really trying to give him what he earned...crazy?
<APmanager_Jeff>	In our members pages, we communicate via bulliten borards, and forums
<APmanager_Jeff>	including emails
<ac20_jck>	Diane, I can dig it!
<EMT_Andrea>	Linkshare, Brian
<Brian_Clark>	That is crazy, Diane ... doesn't make much sense.
<RKER321>	Hello Harith, very interesting
<Brian_Clark>	Andrea ... hmmm, so the network says it's a merchant issue and the merchant says it's a Linkshare issue?
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	all i can do is keep trying...
<EMT_Andrea>	BINGO Brian
<ClubMom_Shawn>	It takes a while to build up a good channel of communication for affiliates - we've got an eGroups for our affiliates and we're up to about 210 and there is daily discussion about our program and other related issues
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	that's typical of linkshare though
<Brian_Clark>	Frustrating, isn't it, Andrea?
<EMT_Andrea>	aarrgghhh
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I often want to ""talk"" to my affiliates ... seems difficult to get tele #'s
<Brian_Clark>	That's the kind of stuff that should be spelled out in more detail in the contract themselves.
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	that's a great idean shawn...maybe i will do egroup!
<MegaMags_John>	it is a clear case of doing everything in moderation...if i am an affiliate who has partnered with 100 merchants, then i will not have time to read through all of the communications, nor will i have time to optimize my links for the greates amount of sells, i think both merchants and affiliates should focus there efforts on developing quality partnerships, this means do not get carried away with more affiliate relationships than any one group can handle
<Affiliates4Cash_Nanc>	thanks everyone!
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Linkshare is not big on communications
<EMT_Andrea>	what can we do to prevent this, other than taking the links off?
<Arlana>	lots of tracking problems lately at LinkShare
<Brian_Clark>	Lisa: many affiliates are gun shy becuase their merchant parters do more promotion to them than communication :)
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	It took them two weeks to get back to me, and I'm the merchant!
<MainshipSystems_DS>	bfree is worse than Linkshare.
<ac20_jck>	Brian, what recourse do we have , as affilaites, if a merchant doesn't pay on time?
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	megamags: moderation is key!
<SheilaRuth>	Lisa: Sometimes talking is tough,especially for those of us who are stay at home moms. Email works better for me
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	AAAAAh, good point
<allplaza_David_Fish>	we would love to talk to any affiliate - we give them a toll free number to call us
<Brian_Clark>	Only what they gave you in the contract.
<Brian_Clark>	That's why you need to look at the boilerplate stuff with a fine tooth comb.
<Brian_Clark>	And understand who you could appeal decisions to.
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	agree with MegaMaps - while we want to have communication with merchants - if we as affiliates have several hundred programs it's not feasible for us to be part of a community/boards/emails lists for each and every one of them
<ac20_jck>	but holding their feet to the fire is expensive... is there a trick?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I can totally appreciate that Sheila! :)
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	HI Wendy
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	i can't imagine an affiliate manager ""NOT"" wanting to talk to their affiliates
<Brian_Clark>	Reel.com, for example, now includes an arbitration clause in their agreement, which I think is just super.
<tipztime>	Hi.
<EMT_Andrea>	and Brian, the contract is clear and we have done what we can - they claim it's a tracking problem - all fingers pointing everywhere - they even called our customer to verify the sale!
<IntelliCom_Deb1>	I have found it tough to find a contact phone number for the merchants
<Brian_Clark>	If you had an unresolvable issue with Reel.com, you could seek arbitration, which is a real step towards fairness in that kind of regard.
<ac20_jck>	is there a way to "":blackball""t he bad merchants?
<ClubMom_Shawn>	Biran - do you know if there has been any ned for arbitration for Reel?
<DomainDirect_Bessy>	Hello people
<Marla_ClubMom>	Hi Wendy
<iknowthat_lisa>	good idea, jck
<Brian_Clark>	JCK: they appear and disappear pretty damn quickly.
<Affiliates4Cash_Nanc>	Thanks!
<MainshipSystems_DS>	Great idea jck
<Brian_Clark>	Shawn: don't know yet, since their new program is so young ...
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	it's really in an affiliate mananager's best interest to be up front and easy to contact
<ac20_jck>	we should start a posting of ""dishonorable"" merchants...
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	why Diane?
<Azgar>	I think it is very important that all affiliates read the contract prior to agreeing to the terms. It is the template that will be used in court (or arbitration)to decide how the conflict is resolved. Whether it be over payment, tracking, or any other issue related to the program.
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Dishonorable would work
<tipztime>	Hi Marla
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I offer my tele # in my email sig of every email I send...
<ac20_jck>	Diane, I respectfully disagree...
<Arlana>	probably have a lawsuit on our hands if we do
<Harith>	hi, Ola
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	it's all about good business
<IMC_Ibrahim>	jck: but then you are in legal hot water.
<Brian_Clark>	JCK: yeah, the bbs-es in many of the affiliate portals are a good place to look for that kind of stuff.
<APmanager_Jeff>	The problem with posting dishonorable merchants.....
<EMT_Andrea>	ac20 jck - You may have a solution there
<ClubMom_Shawn>	ac20 - that's dangerous though, because there may be situations where somebody just wants to screw up the reputation of a merchant
<APmanager_Jeff>	how is that defined
<MainshipSystems_DS>	I'm working on a forum for people to post all their ""off topic"" posts. Would this be a good place to post a blackball list?
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	i agree shawn
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Hello Ola!!!!
<APmanager_Jeff>	who defines it
<IMC_Ibrahim>	jck: You step on their toes too hard and they may hit you with a suit.
<ac20_jck>	good point, shawn
<MainshipSystems_DS>	Anyone interested in participating?
<Brian_Clark>	Shawn, I agree ... that's why AU went towards certifying good merchants rather than blackballing bad.
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	jck - open for libel suits if you ""blackBall"" list, don't you think?
<tipztime>	what if you allow it to be a two way thing? merchants and the affiliates being able to post.
<SurroMoms_Kara>	I agree with Shawn too
<Kevin_Awin1>	Speaking onbelf of AffiliateWindow.com in the UK, we very carefully vet our merchants and make payments onbehalf of affiliates.
<Abusaki1>	Is there any way we can transcripts
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Brian: sounds like an excellent idea.
<Abusaki1>	This seems to be going too fast
<ac20_jck>	there HAS to be a better way!
<Brian_Clark>	Sorry, Abusaki ... busy room, eh? They will be posting transcripts.
<ac20_jck>	there are so many of us with similar experiences...
<DomainDirect_Bessy>	too fast - I agree
<Abusaki1>	Thank you
<Kevin_Awin1>	Are there any UK or European affiliates in this group? If so you may be interested in AffiliateWindow.com
<ClubMom_Shawn>	I like the direction of AffiliateUnion - look for the certified merchants - in the same way that people patronize companies listed with the Better Business Bureau
<allplaza_David_Fish>	Any affiliates here send e-newsletters?
<Brian_Clark>	JCK, there is, but it won't happen overnight. Let's push for disclosure first, as it seems to be an area that merchants and affiliates can agree on.
<tipztime>	even rating systems are one way. seems that there should be a two way thing where you can post and rebut any postings.
<Arlana>	I do
<ac20_jck>	like a BBB for affilaite programs>
<Abusaki1>	yes
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	i do
<FFT_Michelle>	I do
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	yes David we do newsletters
<Brian_Clark>	JCK: and a bill of rights for affiliates all rolled into one :)
<ac20_jck>	problem is, those with the ca$h control it...
<Kevin_Awin1>	We send newsletters onbelf of our merchants. Kevin http://www.affiliatewindow.com
<Azgar>	Brian, what does it take to become a participant in the AU process?
<Brian_Clark>	Azgar -- signing up for the discussion list!
<MainshipSystems_DS>	I'd like to send a newsletter, but many of my email addresses aren't HTML capable, and with Commission Junction, I can't figure out how to include the link in a way where i will get credit. Anyone know how to deal with that?
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I always look at Revenews myself to see if a merchant is mentioned there.
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Looking for the best method for sending my Affiliate Newsletter...any thoughts?
<awvcq>	David, I send 2 large newsletters
<Brian_Clark>	It's a very open environment trying to find common ground, so we welcome new voices and new horror stories so we can keep looking at the issues.
<Azgar>	ok, that is a no brainer, count me in.
<allplaza_David_Fish>	thats a great way to make money via a program that allows newsletters like ours
<Brian_Clark>	QuinStreet: then you were happy yesterday :)
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	speaking of newsletters -= why can't we get merchants to understand that in a text newsletter we are not going to put those dumb 1x1 pixels and there will be no tracking of views for it
<tipztime>	there is a way with a refresh window.
<Brian_Clark>	Robyn -- I hate those transparant pixels too.
<allplaza_David_Fish>	Our program is done via CJ and newsletters do great
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	I'm getting tired of merchants acussing us of being dishonest because we send a huge number of clicks on their links
<Brian_Clark>	CJ thinks I'm getting a 1000% click-thru rate *evil grin*
<Abusaki1>	Why doesn't all merchants accept links we put in newsletters
<Arlana>	no kidding Robyn :(
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	Hi Veronica
<Abusaki1>	Some merchants accept leads originating only from our sites
<Brian_Clark>	Robyn, I'm more frightened by terminations.
<ac20_jck>	Abusaki, because they are afraid...
<emt_shareda>	I have been wondering if there is a future for the affiliate program, what do you think.
<Harith>	hi, Herby
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Brian - I don't use any of the 1x1 pixles - I take everything just as the actual url
<allplaza_David_Fish>	on of our top affiliates made over $2000 last month via newsletters
<ClubMom_Shawn>	I accept the non-use of the 1x1 pixel, but it seems like very few other merchants do.
<LinkUp_Veronica>	hello Julie!
<Abusaki1>	Why are they afraid
<Brian_Clark>	Check out the terminations section on http://www.affiliateunion.com/cert/
<ac20_jck>	because it takes them out of the drivers seat..
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	I have been terminated from many as well
<Arlana>	lots of cheaters, Abusaki
<Brian_Clark>	The worst horror stories I'm hearing are merchants dropping affiliates for no reason (or claiming fraud) right before they reach the minimum for a payment.
<tipztime>	yes, Shawn, but we know one who doesn't
<IMC_Ibrahim>	As a merchant, I really am astounded that other merchants would try to stop highly active affiliates...
<ac20_jck>	I think many merchants are afraid of success
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	We also accept the non-use of the 1x1 pixel...
<Kevin_Awin1>	UK AFFILIATE PROGRAMS http://www.affiliatewindow.com
<EMT_Andrea>	yes Brian, correct - RIGHT before payment
<IMC_Ibrahim>	I wish I had some of these ""cheating"" affiliates for my site. :P
<KoolStores_Steve>	that seems to happen to us many times as well
<AffiliateGoddess>	Hi Herby!
<MainshipSystems_DS>	David_Fish: How do you include the links in your newsletter, or do you only send them to HTML compliant email addresses?
<AffiliateFORCE_Herby>	Hello Harith and All. Good to see such an active discussion.
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I just send the long url
<Abusaki1>	not all of use send html newsletters
<Brian_Clark>	We're trying to push for merchants to have two types of termination ... ""for cause"" and ""without cause"" with different expectations of how affiliates should be treated in those two cases.
<allplaza_David_Fish>	if need help seting up newsletters via cj just call or email us
<SurroMoms_Kara>	how do you know who will except non use of the pixel gif
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	I think this is something that maybe the AU should address to merchants - give them a lesson in newsletters and how the links for affilaites will work in them
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	At Club Mom though, I use the redirect, Marla helped me set it up
<Arlana>	I hate the 50 mile long links some merchants have
<Abusaki1>	JulieR I sometimes use linkcounter
<APmanager_Jeff>	Brian...is there a reason that a merchant would want to swindle an affliate of their rightful claim?
<Abusaki1>	Arlana try it
<ac20_jck>	big affilaites are problematic because the borkerage houses (befree, cj, etc.) are set up to handle large volumes of small affilaite (that don't produce) not a few good ones
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	David_Fish ... I'd love to talk to you about how you do that via CJ!
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Surro - you don't know until you do it
<Brian_Clark>	Robyn -- good idea, I think many of them are just afraid of potential spamming and the bad will that could develop because of it.
<KoolStores_Steve>	I don't trust email banner links at all, 6-10 times this passed month I received emails with banner or text link, after placing them, they come back and say, it had the wrong code
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	The AU is an excellent concept, Brian.... I may have missed this comment (hard to keep up w/ everthing), but will the AU charge fees to merchants to be ""registered""?
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	Well if you have 1000 affilates and average 100 dollares per there is an incentive not to pay..... Bad business but thats the way some think
<APmanager_Jeff>	If it's for immediate income...that would be short sightedness
<ac20_jck>	super-affilaites need to be ""cuddled""
<JuniperBank_Jonathan>	jck - I believe Be Free can handle a few well performing affiliates too
<Abusaki1>	Steve tell me about it
<ClubMom_Shawn>	One of the resources on the affiliatewebinar.com site is a URL redirect tool to create the redirect files for you
<Brian_Clark>	Adam: we're considering it, just to help pay ""volunteers"" to do the reviews of programs.
<Arlana>	I do redirect and linkcounter...but it's so much extra work at times
<Abusaki1>	Yes
<emt_shareda>	Brian you are right on the money about merchants claiming fraud when they are about to pay, We have exprience that a few time
<Brian_Clark>	We're commited to this being a non-profit enterprise though, but we're fearful of basing it entirely on unpaid volunteers.
<ac20_jck>	they don't have the systems in place to actively correspond with the super affiliates
<Kevin_Awin1>	Networks are very good at producing good affiliates, at least ones in the UK are. I dont agree that they product poor affiliates!!! http://www.affiliatewindow.com
<allplaza_David_Fish>	my email is david@allplaza.com and our toll free number is at 877-677-6737
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	Brian - I could imagine the amount work to administer this would be huge!
<Azgar>	Brian, It looks like that by joining your discussion group, I will be signing up for a spam list as well. Is this the case, or is my information protected?
<Brian_Clark>	Yeah, emt ... it's far too common.
<JuniperBank_Jonathan>	i think the burden of correspondence falls on the merchant
<Brian_Clark>	Azgar: at ReveNews, we're partners with Yesmail that does a double-opt in (never heard any problems.)
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Thanks David...I apprecieate it! :)
<IMC_Ibrahim>	How important is the look of the site for affiliates? I mean, I know _I_ don't signup unless it looks professional, but is that important for everyone?
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	My other big problem is merchants CONSTANTLY changing payour rates - merchants on CJ are the worst about this and CJ doesn't seem to care and has not implemented any limitations on the merchants for this as they should
<Brian_Clark>	Adam: actually, Rick Bier reduced it all to a pretty quick checklist ... we figure 20-30 minutes per program.
<Azgar>	thanks
<ClubMom_Shawn>	As a reminder - you can chat with the individual sponsor merchants by clicking the ""click here"" link below the buttons above and below this chat room.
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	What do you mean Robyn?
<awvcq>	Switchouse booted me from their program without explanation, I send 2 large newsletters where the leads were acquired
<Harith>	Azgar, you get only AU list when you sign-up.
<Brian_Clark>	to certify, that is ... so we figure 5-10 volunteers should be able to tackle it no problem.
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	IMC - I look at every site before I sign up and see if it will work
<Abusaki1>	I don't trust CJ too
<Kevin_Awin1>	Text click through's generate 7 times more sales than banner adverts. http://www.affiliatewindow.com
<EMT_Andrea>	I agree Robyn - no notice, either
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Genealogy - CJ merchants change the amount they pay up and down up and down - constantnly
<Abusaki1>	Anyone having problems with them
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Robyn: hmm, well that's good. I'm still in the phase of trying to get the program exposed more.
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I agree text links are way better
<Arlana>	no kidding....get 20-30 emails every day, just from change in payout
<KoolStores_Steve>	CJ is a big mistake, I took there stores off my site
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Wow...so they raiser or lower their commissions regulary? without talking to you first?
<ac20_jck>	it would be cool if the merchants themselves dealt with high-produces, instead of going through the third parties.
<Brian_Clark>	Arlana, that's horrible!
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	I like CJ in general - but they have been very unresponsive on this issue
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	Brian - I noticed that... but to moderate/ensure conformity... how would you police such an effort?
<JuniperBank_Jonathan>	Text links have been proven to work better.
<ClubMom_Shawn>	Please save questions directed at CJ for the next chat - they will be running that one.
<Kevin_Awin1>	We only allow affiliates to change their commission once a month. Http://www.affiliatewindow.com
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	I have been burned to many times by Cj merchants
<Arlana>	usually lower....and right after you sign up
<JuniperBank_Jonathan>	At Juniper we make sure to provide banners and text links to affiliates
<SurroMoms_Kara>	LOL ok Shawn
<allplaza_David_Fish>	no problem, also in anyone else has questions like how to set up our link in a newsletter, you can click on our banner on top.
<Brian_Clark>	Adam, that's the big question we're tackling now (the organizational structure) but we think it's doable because of the kinds of criteria.
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	sorry Shawn - was more of a general comment - others do it as well -= not just CJ merchants
<Brian_Clark>	I just with there was also time to be some kind of investigative unit on complaints as well, but that task would be impossibly massive :(
<EMT_Andrea>	Kevin - I ust sya that you have your technology act tpogether better than most US networks - seems very accurate
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I am interested in the theme ""burned by CJ Merchants"" and fear to be categorized..
<mari>	Seems like several of CJ merchants lowered their rates dramatically after I signed up. Frustrating!
<Abusaki1>	Hi Steve
<AffiliateGoddess>	Merchants try to acheive the right commission payout that works for them and incents the affiliate - it is often trial and error
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	They expect me to blindly trust the merchant tracking...and no complain if I am a victum of merchant fraud
<Rick_Bier>	Brian - talk to me about editors later
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	as a CJ Merchant my self...I'd like to make sure I'm avoiding this pitfall...
<Brian_Clark>	*grin* Rick :)
<KoolStores_Steve>	Hello
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	understandable Goddess - but hard to take on the affiliate end of the deal
<Kevin_Awin1>	Thanks EMT
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	Brian -agreed...very massive! and potentially, a legal nightmare!
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Interested in being edcuated by willing Affiliates! :)
<MainshipSystems_DS>	I also don't like the constant chane in CJ payouts. But, I've never to my knowledge not been paid for a sale or lead. I do think their more honest than most.
<Brian_Clark>	Agreed, Robyn. Sometimes we as affiliates feel like chattel rather than partners :(
<ac20_jck>	sounds like some of you merchants should consider ""cutting out"" the middle man...
<KoolStores_Steve>	I still have an HTML Question
<emt_shareda>	Brian, Since the holiday season began, many merchants exited the program or claimed technical difficulties. It appears that they want all the profit for the holiday season, and then let the affilates do cheap advertising the rest ofthe year
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	Did you send any traffic to Appio?
<ac20_jck>	organization is the key to success..... or something like that!
<Arlana>	yup Mark
<Rick_Bier>	Brian - talk to me about editors later
<allplaza_David_Fish>	as long as an merchant explains why they lower the rate and give some warnings, an affiliate should be understanging I think
<Brian_Clark>	emt, I fear you are right ...
<IMC_Ibrahim>	I considered having a 3rd party program manage the click-throughs, etc. But since I have the programming skill, and the server, it made sense to run it on my own.
<Brian_Clark>	not in all cases, but in some notable ones for certain.
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	And you were paid?
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	Hi, I am in the UK and I am looking to attract large masses of traffic to our competition site over the next couple of months, what would be the best ways to cheaply generate reliable traffic ?
<EMT_Andrea>	Brian - is it what we think it is? They are using us for free advertising?
<ac20_jck>	Ibrahim, yes! run it on your own.
<Arlana>	probably not...have to look at old reports
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Brian - I think a big part of the problem is that many merchants accept anyone and everyone into their program - they just want those banners up - free advertising, they know the majority aren't going to make enough for minimum payout. This is negative to those of us who actually perform
<IMC_Ibrahim>	There are still some issues I have with affiliate zone, but hopefully I won't have problems with it..
<Brian_Clark>	Free branding, even ... the Amazon approach.
<ac20_jck>	ha!
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Robyn: why is that a negative?
<Brian_Clark>	Make commissionable events rather difficult to achieve, but benefit from the branding you receive from the sites.
<AffiliateGoddess>	my suggestion is anytime you feel a change in commission is unwarranted based on YOUR production - make a case for it to the merchant
<Brian_Clark>	Not exactly a scam, but clearly not the win-win case that performance marketing can be.
<AffiliateGoddess>	good merchants want GOOD active affiliates
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	because with a mass they minimize the entire program
<RKER321>	Shouls a small affiliate quit all together and leave the field to the SuperAffiliates?
<Brian_Clark>	Agreed, Linda :)
<guy>	Hello..Is anyone here?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Bingo Linda!
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	the company says we can't see spending resources to reach only a small percentate that actually can make us money
<AffiliateGoddess>	many affiliates whine about commission cuts but they dont produce business for the merhcant
<allplaza_David_Fish>	hi guy
<TipzTime_Wendy>	wouldn't that be like saying small businesses should quit and let the big guys reign?
<Brian_Clark>	RKER, I'd say don't give up ... but be selective on what you're ready to put real effort into. Pick them like you would a partner.
<Adgrafix_Maureen>	I agree Linda
<Marla_ClubMom>	Good point Wendy...
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	RK - no that isn't what I am saying - I'm saying INACTIVE maybe should be dropped after say 3 months
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	make sure the merchant matches your audience
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I would LOVE to hear a pitch from an affiliate....ideas they have to increase their commissions!
<Brian_Clark>	Linda: if they don't produce sales, they don't get commissions ... so what's the beeft?
<ClubMom_Shawn>	As an affiliate, I tend to steer away from any merchants that don't provide links to an actionable page
<AffiliateGoddess>	Most are more than willing to compensate active affiliates and get tired of non productive whiners
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	A small affiliate should concentrate on ONE merchant
<Kevin_Awin1>	Blartly, you should join http://www.affiliatewindow.com
<Brian_Clark>	beeft=beef :)
<SheilaRuth>	Shawn - I agree
<kaye>	ClubMom_Shawn -- why did you guys recently reduce your bountie?
<ac20_jck>	I agree with Mark!
<IMC_Ibrahim>	We do place a 'minimum' on our programs. It's, right now, at 20 dollars. We do this because we don't want to have to send out checks for $1.25 every quarter.
<ScholarStuff_John>	out of all the affiliate networks, I prefer CJ - I never really have problems with merchants changing rates but I guess that all depends on the merchants you partner with.
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I think just one merchant seems a little too small a number
<DomainDirect_Bessy>	and good merchants will go above and beyond the call of duty to train their affiliates - offering them affiliate tips - how to increase sales etc..
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I am a small affiliate and have several that are moderate producers
<AffiliateGoddess>	Many affiliaes throw up links that are meaningless to their content and expect miracles
<ClubMom_Shawn>	Kaye - our bounty never was reduced.
<ac20_jck>	You HAVE to train your affilaites (well, most of them)
<Brian_Clark>	Julie: I'd rather have one merchant that I can put a lot of energy into than 10 that I'm just lukewarm about.
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	If you are not making money with one... more will make less
<IMC_Ibrahim>	jck: yep. I agree.
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	agree Goddess
<ac20_jck>	I agree, Brian.
<TipzTime_Wendy>	I think what runs successful for me sometimes is to be able to make my own links to sections of a merchants site that my visitors would be interested in.
<Marla_ClubMom>	our bounty has always stayed the same
<AffiliateGoddess>	have to promote effectively a merhcant - and then if they change something - speak up - if you are productive - most will listen
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	Mine are relevant to the content on the page
<ac20_jck>	too many merchants makes it hard to track results
<AroundTheHouse_Bonni>	I agree, Wendy
<Adgrafix_Maureen>	What do you consider to be a small affiliate ? under 1 K ?
<Brian_Clark>	Julie: and are they all producing sales?
<KoolStores_Steve>	it is hard to manage many merchants I know this, I have over 500 in many other programs
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	like cooking at recipes section
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	Nope
<APmanager_Jeff>	Linda...higher commissions for performing affliates
<Brian_Clark>	Relevency is only interesting if it actually produces more sales :)
<AffiliateGoddess>	Wendy - that's rght - you have to ""sell"" - not just throw up links
<FFT_Michelle>	I would like to see more merchants offer exclusive deals for some affiliates to offer their visitors....I know that it would be very helpful in alot of cases
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	If you can be sucessful with one you LEARN how to be sucessfl=ul with more
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I change them around and use a newsletter
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	Its a process
<APmanager_Jeff>	Post that ahead of time
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Yes, I have automatic link builders that are written with text that gives them a ""reason why""
<AffiliateGoddess>	exactly jeff
<CasinosOnTheNet>	is there such thing as an underproducing affiliate if they are bringing income to the merchant?
<bhoefer>	Remember- the affiliates are in control. You can add or drop at anytime. Don't stick with a loser merchant
<Brian_Clark>	Probably, Casinos.
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	... but also being a merchant we want good affiliates generating realiable traffic ... we rely on traffic... by having too many small affiliates the traffic goes up and down to much depending on what the affiliates do that day (newsletter or any other marketing) ...
<APmanager_Jeff>	Make all affilates aware of this
<AffiliateGoddess>	no - casinos
<APmanager_Jeff>	No suprises for anyone
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	Sometimes they are not a loser, they just don't match your demographic
<Brian_Clark>	If they are producing as much income as they could and that is accidental (rather than a conscious decision.)
<AffiliateGoddess>	true
<Brian_Clark>	I'd say that is ""underperforming"".
<Marla_ClubMom>	Very true Julie
<AffiliateGoddess>	but if they produce at all - most merchants won't drop
<ac20_jck>	Brian, do you see the trend in affilaite marketing going from CPM to CPA?
<CasinosOnTheNet>	any ideas on how or where you can use an ezine buider?
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	MMoller - but that is going to happen with newsletter for both big and small affiliates
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	If you want to be part of a great affiliate scheme and you have loads of traffic ... please contact me ...
<Brian_Clark>	JCK - I think so.
<IMC_Ibrahim>	CPA?
<KoolStores_Steve>	We have had over 2000 merchants in the past come and go, I have a long list of comapnies that are not worth a dime
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	cost per action
<IMC_Ibrahim>	ah...
<allplaza_David_Fish>	CPA is the way of the future
<ac20_jck>	do you thinkit will benefit affilaite marketing or be the death of it?
<Brian_Clark>	It's a more flexible format that supports a broader range of models, and puts the ""risk"" closer to halfway between the publisher and merchant.
<AffiliateGoddess>	the key is active interest in how your site performs - use merchants that enhance your content & work with you - drop those thatt dont
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	when I send an affiliate link out in one of my newsletters to thousands of people obviously it's going to get much higher traffic than it does just on the site
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	I love CPA myself
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	jck - it would be a benefit
<ac20_jck>	CPA rules!
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I sometimes get 40% click through on newsletters
<TipzTime_Wendy>	I like pay per lead, plus percentage if a sale is made. It benefits both merchant and affiliate
<allplaza_David_Fish>	its a way for us to treat affiliates as real sales persons
<Focalex_Ryan>	whoa - 40%!
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	Many think they are worth a dime ( per action ) HaHa
<APmanager_Jeff>	CPA....more qualified customers
<mari>	I appreciate it when an affiliate has time to look at my site and make suggestions what they think would work. I like to tailor affiliate links with our content. I think that works best than blindly putting up banner ads. Keeping track is tough on a large site though.
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	Robyn ... I would like to chat to you ... message me ...
<ac20_jck>	per-lead is, by far, the best
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	The online game itself will soon be CPA
<CasinosOnTheNet>	Robyn...are your newsletters simpy generated with a word processing program or a specialized one?
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	Several of my affiliates have had great success using newsletters
<APmanager_Jeff>	Helps reduce fraud
<ac20_jck>	I use cfaffiliate.com and they are very good to me
<TeamOn_JamieBirch>	but how do merchants recruit good solid affiliates?
<AffiliateGoddess>	CPA is affiliate marketing - CPM is the enemy of aff mktg
<Brian_Clark>	Jamie: classic business development techniques.
<ac20_jck>	I agree affilaitegoddess!
<JuniperBank_Jonathan>	Juniper Bank pays up to a $40 CPA...come chat with us. Click on the link above this window on the left.
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Casinos - I do them all by hand in regular old email - nothing fancy at all
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	I like CPC ... fair way to do it ...
<KoolStores_Steve>	I wish the affilate merchants have return commission, meaning if there purchase items once, and they returned, we would see a commission on the second purchase as well.
<Brian_Clark>	Hunt down the people who look like good partners, and introduce yourself and try to build a relationship. Don't spam them, but bizdev them.
<AroundTheHouse_Bonni>	Because of choosing merchants to match my content, I actually joined so early that I am still incactive, so have been dropped by several.
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I am an affiliate recruiter and I go out and look at the websites and then call them up on the phone
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	I think it depends on your model
<TeamOn_JamieBirch>	Thank you Brain.
<allplaza_David_Fish>	and we pay $0.50 per a lead
<Brian_Clark>	I must get 20-30 such bizdev inquiries a month, and I could sure tell the ""Dear Webmaster"" ones from the real potential partners.
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	AYB.com we pay $5 CPA..plus commission.
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	We pay £0.25 per cpa to register ... come and talk to us ...
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	It doesn't make sense for a content site to do a CPA deal
<ac20_jck>	CPC's are OK if you have HUGE traffic, but for a little site...
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Brian - how do you recommend Merchants recruit...send email? call?
<CasinosOnTheNet>	thank you...I haven' t had much success getting people to sign up for a newsletter...what do y'allrecommend?
<ac20_jck>	why rentia?
<Adgrafix_Maureen>	I do that too Julie
<Brian_Clark>	Lisa, I'd say email first, but a personal email not a sales pitch. Find out if they are interested enough to follow up via phone.
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	we have a 30% sign up conversion ...
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Because what are you as an affiliate aquiring
<IntelliCom_Deb1>	Brian what advice can you give to someone just starting to research affiliate programs
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	yes please do NOT spam us with affiliate programs - I don't even consider companies who spam me (multiple emails to all different address about their program)
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Brian - I'd rather be more personal...but usually don't have a contact name or a tele #
<TipzTime_Wendy>	make it easy for them to sign up for your newsletter
<Brian_Clark>	If you picked a good match, they are likely to think the same thing of you.
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Casinos: I just have a simple form that enters the email, and they click to subscribe
<Red_Hot_Sweeps_CDitty>	I prefer emails. I hate getting calls from people I don't know.
<IMC_Ibrahim>	get a lot of people
<Focalex_DarrenDeLuca>	Come chat with Focalex Affiliate Team Staff in Focalex Chat'
<Brian_Clark>	Yeah, but you'd never reach me by phone ... I have ""defenses"" (heh heh)
<Arlana>	I run a monthly Contest and have a ""sign up"" option on the form
<TipzTime_Wendy>	put it in a noticiable spot and decorate it up a little. I have had much success with this recently
<Brian_Clark>	You would reach me by email.
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	:) :)
<Marla_ClubMom>	My husband just signed up for your Casino game, is it really fair?
<AffiliateGoddess>	bonni -thats what merchants hate - be selective you wont make any money just joining - gotta work em
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	I use a CPC for my content clients, and a CPA for my product clients
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Arlana: yeah, I also have a ""chance to win X""
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Casino - give them incentive to join, then produce a quality newsletter to make them stay
<Red_Hot_Sweeps_CDitty>	Arlana, what is your site?
<CasinosOnTheNet>	incentive such as?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Great point...e-mail does seem to be the primary choice of AFfiliates...I'm just such a touchy-feely person I guess!
<SurroMoms_Kara>	what is CPC and CPA?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	CPC-cost per click
<Brian_Clark>	*smile* I always close negotiations by phone, cause I'm touchy feely too :)
<ac20_jck>	cost per click and cost per aquisition
<CasinosOnTheNet>	Marla...was your comment about the casino to me?
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	contest, sweepstakes, giveaway, freebie - something that makes it worth it to them to sign up for yet another newsletter
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	Cost per Click
<Focalex_DarrenDeLuca>	Cost Per CLick... amd cost per action or aqusition
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	CPA - cost per action
<Marla_ClubMom>	yes it was
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	Cost per action
<mari>	What's the best way to contact a merchant and say how can we work together without it sounding like spam?
<Arlana>	Arlana's Corner
<Brian_Clark>	Oh, Mari ... be bold about that!
<AroundTheHouse_Bonni>	Goddess, I am extremely selective, but my site was not finished due to wanting to tailer my content to my specific merchants.
<CasinosOnTheNet>	ok...thanks
<allplaza_David_Fish>	Come chat with us - our banner is on top Allplaza.com
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Brian - Glad to see another one of us in this electronic works! :
<Ken_Werner>	Hi Arlana
<TipzTime_Wendy>	contact them in return for an affiliate newsletter that they send out.
<Neil_Durrant>	mari- make it personal, do yourresarch before you get in touch
<Brian_Clark>	Find out how to contact their BizDev office and be ready to make your case for why you would make a great partner.
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	Call them on the phone
<Brian_Clark>	Most merchants are actually quite open to that.
<Arlana>	sorry, lag spike
<Focalex_DarrenDeLuca>	We sure are... we are always looking for new business
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I talk to tons of web sites and most are open
<CasinosOnTheNet>	depends on which casino....email me at the bottom of my site and I can give you my personal experience on several
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	I've called affiliates and they have been SO surprised to hear from me!
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	BizDev can be a weird lot
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	Some of them are here
<ac20_jck>	Brian, what's a good way to find out who does Bizdev at a company?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	BRIAN: BizDev ... if they don't have one listed on their site (email address)...do you suggest their Advertising person?
<Marla_ClubMom>	Thanks!
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	your right renetia
<ac20_jck>	I've asked, they always think I'm trying to sell long distance or something
<Brian_Clark>	JCK: look on their website for a contact for ""business development"" or ask for ""business development"" with an operator at their company.
<Focalex_Ryan>	We love hearing from our affils.! It's usually us calling them, but always nice to hear them call and give us feedback
<Focalex_DarrenDeLuca>	not necessarly the advertising staff... but marketing, sponsorships, partners
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	AYB - is there a way to get signup stats from you all other than monthly?
<Brian_Clark>	Advertising, maybe ... but I tend to like bizdev people more :)
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	If you can't get BizDev get the Online Marketing People
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	If you want to know who to talk to just ask whoever answers the phone
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	I am open to any deal which is beneficial for us as a merchant and to the affiliate ... if it is a good affiliate we want to offer them a good deal to keep them !
<Ola>	*Ola from Affiliate Tips walks silently into the chatroom waiving to all familar faces... :-) *
<Aptimus_Tara>	Just call them by phone and ask who handles BizDev in their company.
<nano_ryann>	Question: How much time & money do inactive affiliates cost merchants?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	BRIAN: I just don't seem to find a lot of BIZDEV email or contact info on these sites
<ac20_jck>	nano, not much
<TipzTime_Wendy>	I would love to see my affiliate stats come in my email. =)
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I totall agree with that approach however!
<Brian_Clark>	Look in the ""about our company"" sections ... or in ""investor relations"" :)
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	Robyn, we are looking to FTP earnings once a week, but that's still being discussed
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	When I ask about BizDev half the time they ask me what is that?
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Not much if their inactive
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Genealogy - I call and just ask for the affiliate manager
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	you can call me and I can tell you personally if you'd like =)
<ac20_jck>	thanks, Brian!
<Brian_Clark>	If nothing else, hunt down a press release from the company to find a name or two :)
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	our send me an email
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	LOL Julie!
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	k thanks AYB - I just joined yours and ran it the other day and was just curious how I did
<ClubMom_Shawn>	Are many of the chatters here already involved with AffiliateUnion?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	GREAT ideas Brian ... thanks! :)
<ac20_jck>	ooh.. goo d idea!
<Focalex_Ryan>	inactive - very little for us
<Aptimus_Tara>	If they don't know what BizDev is, ask for the marketing department, preferably an online marketing manager.
<CasinosOnTheNet>	your welcome
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Not yet Shawn
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	how about I take a look and send you an email?
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	no yet Shawn - but I will take a look after today :)
<Brian_Clark>	Yeah, how many of you were familiar with AU before the session?
<HerSports_Elizabeth>	I like getting a recept email when an affiliate sale is made
<EMT_Andrea>	not yet, but as soon as this is over.... =)
<ac20_jck>	I've never heard of affilaite union before today
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	I wasn't familiar with them
<FFT_Michelle>	No not yet, but I just bookmarked it
<TeamOn_JamieBirch>	Ive been to the site
<SurroMoms_Kara>	I never heard of them Brian
<mari>	So you think if I email some of our merchants where we're not doing much and introduce myself, ""Hi, I'm Mari from StorkNet"" and ask how we might improve performance, merchants would be receptive? What can it hurt, right? LOL!
<MainshipSystems_DS>	I;ve never hearn of AU, but I'll check them out now!
<HerSports_Elizabeth>	I also like getting weekly reports on affiliate sales via email
<APmanager_Jeff>	We are!
<Contesthound_Bob>	I had not heard of it but I will be reviewing it after the seminar
<Brian_Clark>	Well, let me give that URL again!
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	I have been to the site and read Shawns articles
<ac20_jck>	I'll be their best friend now though! (hehe)
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	Please come and talk to me if your site traffic would be interested in free competitions !
<Brian_Clark>	http://www.affiliateunion.com
<Marla_ClubMom>	Casinos on the Net, I just sent you an email, I hope it was the right one...
<SheilaRuth>	I've been to the a site and joined the group but I'm not acitve just lurking
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	mari - never hurts - but remember that you will NOT get a response from some of them
<Brian_Clark>	Lurking is ok, Ruth.
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	others will be great and send you all sorts of info and such
<KoolStores_Steve>	we at KoolStores.com do not send out email, we doing US mailing, and door to door getting attention. We mailed out 7000 letters telling people about our products and service. And we seemed to had done this very cheaply. We also went to shopping malls and placed ads on cars. In one week our site visitors increased from 1000 to 1500 per day.
<Brian_Clark>	And make sure to let people know that we at AU want to hear the horror stories that are happening.
<mari>	Thanks Robyn!
<KoolStores_Steve>	It's still small, but it worked for us.
<nano_ryann>	MERCHANTS---How much time & money do you spend on the ""inactives
<JuniperBank_Jonathan>	Is everyone aware that credit card affiliate programs are some of the best performing programs on the web?
<CasinosOnTheNet>	just sent you my website URL and another email address by private...did you get it?
<ac20_jck>	I sure hope affilaite marketing continues to grow.
<Brian_Clark>	Not only does it make fodder for the criteria, it builds the case for why merchants should want to separate themselves from ""those kinds of programs"" taht take advantage.
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	JCk - it wil
<ac20_jck>	Its reassuring to know that there are others with a similar, vested interest in its success
<AroundTheHouse_Bonni>	Brian, any plans in the works for group insurance for affiliates?
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	Its an easier and less expensive online medium
<Focalex_Ryan>	jck - me too, since it's my job :-)
<JuniperBank_Jonathan>	Come chat with us and learn how to earn at least $25 per credit card!
<Focalex_DarrenDeLuca>	I got a question for all the affiliates here... who runs a newsletter?
<Marla_ClubMom>	Thanks! I just got it
<APmanager_Jeff>	AC22...It will!
<Brian_Clark>	Bonni: that would be a hoot! No, not yet ... we've got modest ambitions right now *blush*
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	i send several emails to inactive affiliates to provide tips and identify interest.
<ac20_jck>	i run a newsletter
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	QuinStreet offers some free medical programs for higher performing affiliates
<bestbizfit_michael>	Is there a way or a site that affiliates can join to blacklist certain merchants that don't treat affliates with ethics?
<FFT_Michelle>	I have a weekly newsletter
<Arlana>	I do
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	I run a newletter
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	monthly newsletter too
<Eurovacations_Errera>	we do too
<APmanager_Jeff>	AC22 Old fasioned marketing is too expensive
<AroundTheHouse_Bonni>	thanks Julie
<TipzTime_Wendy>	weekly newsletter
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Michael: not yet. and we discussed that it's likely a bad idea to do that, unless you have legal protection
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	do you think a weekly newsletter would be hounding affiliates?
<Brian_Clark>	Michael -- sqwauk in as many discussion groups as you can, and contact affiliate publishers.
<Focalex_DarrenDeLuca>	everyone with a newsletter come chat with me in focalex chat
<APmanager_Jeff>	Affiliate programs are cost effective if operated properly
<mari>	I don't think so Diane.
<allplaza_David_Fish>	Come chat with us and learn how to earn money with Allplaza.com
<TipzTime_Wendy>	I like to hear once or twice a month from merchants
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	thanks
<Brian_Clark>	Getting the word out to affiliates about problem merchants is an important step of venting your frustrations (and building mass to get people to do something about it.)
<Brian_Clark>	remember: the squeeky wheel gets the grease :)
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	i agree brian
<ac20_jck>	yeah, the cheaters must be brought to justice!
<ac20_jck>	*wink*
<TMi_RenetiaMcDaniel>	I agree!!
<MrInkMan>	Mr Ink Man would like to talk to anyone who has a newsletter - 1-843-209-7131 or email mrinkman@mrinkman.com
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	another note on communication - I would love to see a minimum monthly newsletter from merchants letting us know what they are doing on their site - tell us about your special offers and promotions so we can in turn promote them with our affiliate links
<OneandOnly_JordanWood>	I know that many of our affiliates get spammed with newsletters, and half the time they just delete them without even reading the e-mail. It is important to be selective when sending newsletters.
<Brian_Clark>	It's also important to note that there are some damn scummy affiliates out there too.
<MMoller_Blartly_com>	I would like to people with a UK newsletter ..
<bestbizfit_michael>	it seems this is no different than the normal business/salesman problem, just online. Problems stay the same, even in technology
<allplaza_David_Fish>	If you you have a newsletter we are great program for newsletters http://www.allplaza.com
<TipzTime_Wendy>	I don't delete merchant mail until I read them.
<IMC_Ibrahim>	You just have to be careful how you go about ""venting"". Because if you do it too harshly, you may open up a libel suit against yourself. A message board, however, is not repsonsible, under one of the few remaining CDA acts.
<bestbizfit_michael>	Pick your partners carefully
<Brian_Clark>	No, agreed, Ibrahim.
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	One&Only - but your good affilaites are going to read them
<TeamOn_JamieBirch>	Yes htere are scamming affiliates
<ClubMom_Shawn>	What are some of the biggest complaints that you all have about merchants?
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	no question they will continue to grow JCK... just look at the reduction in CPM ad purchases as evidenced by the recent DoubleClick, et al, layoffs
<Brian_Clark>	But affiliates don't communicate with each other enough, so new people keep getting victimized by the same culprits.
<ac20_jck>	adam, good point!
<Andrew_allplaza>	l visitors
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	I know with the several hundred programs we run I just don't have time to go to every single site and see what is going on
<SheilaRuth>	Not providing the kind of links I need!
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	:)
<Brian_Clark>	""There's a sucker born every minute"" as the saying goes.
<EMT_Andrea>	yes, Brian, you are SO right
<TipzTime_Wendy>	exactly Robyn
<IMC_Ibrahim>	Brian: exactly. And sometimes the merchant doesn't even realize they're being unethical.
<KoolStores_Steve>	Not responding to letters in a timily matter, is always a big deal
<Brian_Clark>	Agree, Ibrahim.
<ac20_jck>	I agree Steve
<Contesthound_Bob>	I agree Robyn
<IMC_Ibrahim>	That could just be because they're too caught up in the quest for the dollar. :P
<mari>	Shawn - I agree with SheilaRuth. I've tried to contact a couple asking if we could get a different size ad and not had a response.
<FFT_Michelle>	Or not responding to letters at all
<Brian_Clark>	I once contacted VStore because their affiliate agreement said they would own my website after I signed up.
<APmanager_Jeff>	Brian..awareness or lack thereof it is the culprit
<SurroMoms_Kara>	Shawn the text links stink so you want to change them but you have to ask if it's ok and you don't hear back
<Red_Hot_Sweeps_CDitty>	Same here mari
<MainshipSystems_DS>	Anyone interested in joining an affiliate forum, email me at diane@MainshipSystems.com. Or does anyone out know of one besides AU?
<Brian_Clark>	They were more shocked than I was that was in their contract :)
<ac20_jck>	they have never loooked closely at their ad costs for TV, radio, print media..
<emt_shareda>	Ibrahim what is the full name of your company?
<EMT_Andrea>	Shawn - claimed inability to correctly track sales made through the site, resulting in non-payment of commission. And we got the fraud thing thrown at us a few times now.
<Brian_Clark>	And it was gone the next day.
<APmanager_Jeff>	The responsibility needs to be spread out
<IMC_Ibrahim>	HEH
<ac20_jck>	if they did, they'd be all over their good affilaites...
<KoolStores_Steve>	Not providing banners or text links to certain area effectively
<RKER321>	Yes
<ac20_jck>	wining them, dining them, buying them Super Bowl tickets(ha!)
<APmanager_Jeff>	There are a lot of websites out there that are aresources for affliates
<SheilaRuth>	Yes, Steve, some merchants think a home page link is enough
<Eurovacations_Errera>	why do more than 70 % of affiliates do not activate the link/banner ? How can the merchants convince them to do so ?
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	what are Affiliates preferred choice of links?
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	check the http://www.usamc.org DS... an excellent resource for affiliate managers
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	product specific? text? banner?
<ac20_jck>	text links!
<DropCigarettes_Mark>	Tested links..
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	editorial w/text link?
<SheilaRuth>	Text/ product specific
<Contesthound_Bob>	text links to actions
<TipzTime_Wendy>	text links
<SurroMoms_Kara>	I like descriptive text links
<ClubMom_Shawn>	Errera - Ken Evoy will be discussing that issue in a later chat.
<Eurovacations_Errera>	Newsletter are unfortunately not very successful
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	YES tested for sure ...
<APmanager_Jeff>	These sites need to point to affiate union to take advantage of networking capabilities of the Internet
<Brian_Clark>	Errera: educate them, and realize that there is always going to be some that don't follow through.
<Red_Hot_Sweeps_CDitty>	We prefer text links.
<FFT_Michelle>	I like the 120 X 120 ads and the text links, especially if I can customize the text
<OneandOnly_JordanWood>	Banner links just do not get the click through and conversion that they used to.
<ReveNews_JD>	I almost always prefer a direct produt link...
<KoolStores_Steve>	maybe, but for us it isn't, and I know many portal like koolstores.com feels the same way.
<AtYourBusiness_Diane>	eurovacations: i have a 45% active rate and I've done it via emails sent every two weeks inquirying as to their interest
<AffiliateGoddess>	And dont forget Neil's exceelent resource www.affiliatemarketing.co.uk
<Brian_Clark>	Maybe they are finally learning all the details of participating after the signup and loosing interest?
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	call them on the phone honestly affiliates fall over in shock when someone calls them
<SheilaRuth>	Lisa: For genealogy a search form would be great
<SurroMoms_Kara>	and cool looking small banners (squarish size)
<Robyn_TheWinnersClub>	Euro - sometimes we never end up putting up links - the program may look good to start with, but after we see the links being provided and where they go on the merchants site it just wouldn't work for us
<IMC_Ibrahim>	People are learning to ""screen out"" banners when they browse.
<TipzTime_Wendy>	I like to do my own product link with description too sometimes
<Brian_Clark>	I know that happens to me ... looks like a great program, you sign up and discover they have one crappy banner bar that you have to loose, and they never get implemented.
<SheilaRuth>	When people can see that their ancestor is on a CD they are likely to buy it!
<AffiliatePeople_Adam>	agreed, Linda... another excellent resource :)
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	Yes Sheila...and I'm and currently working on a GREAT search box link!
<ac20_jck>	banners are as worthless as my belt!
<SheilaRuth>	Lisa: Yea! Thanks!
<Brian_Clark>	Quick poll.
<Genealogy_LisaDeJong>	I am REALLY excited about this seach box link...
<AffiliateGoddess>	you all have differnet answers on banners/links - thats why its so important for merchants to have a variety
<Brian_Clark>	How many of you have clicked on one of the banners on this chat interface?
<QuinStreet_JulieR>	some banners are OK
<mari>	Lisa - I kind of like a variety. I have a big site and there's always a way to tailor a link with content - sometimes it's a text link, sometimes it's a button ad. I can be really flexible if the merchant can be with the ads. I'm basically looking for anything other than a 468x60 banner. People aren't looking at them much anymore.
<Contesthound_Bob>	Not yet
<EMT_Andrea>	me
<bestbizfit_michael>	yes